Pop, the Question (S5: E40)
State of Euphoria
Featured Guest Kiara Santos (Undergraduate, Communication, College of Arts and Sciences, Drexel University)
Host and Producer Melinda Lewis, PhD (Associate Director, Marketing & Media)
Dean Paula Marantz Cohen, PhD (Dean, Pennoni Honors College)
Executive Producer Erica Levi Zelinger (Director, Marketing & Media)
Producer Brian Kantorek (Assistant Director, Marketing & Media)
Research and Script Melinda Lewis, PhD
Audio Engineering and Editing Brian Kantorek
Original Theme Music Brian Kantorek
Production Assistance Noah Levine
Graphic Design Bhavna Ganesan
Logo Design Michal Anderson
Additional Voiceover Malia Lewis
Recorded March 11, 2022 through virtual conferencing.
Pop, the Question is a production of Marketing & Media in Pennoni Honors College at Drexel University.
The views expressed in this podcast are not necessarily those of Drexel University or Pennoni Honors College.
Copyright © 2022 Drexel University
Episode Summary
Euphoria is a highly bingeable HBO series that has made an indelible impact on pop culture of the early 2020s. It has drugs, sex, cutting-edge fashion, constant conflict, and plenty of references to past TV teen dramas like My So-Called Life and Beverly Hills, 90210. It also places lead star Zendaya and writer/director Sam Levinson in the spotlight, but not without criticism. Host Dr. Melinda Lewis welcomes Drexel University student and Euphoria critic Kiara Santos on the phone for a debrief of the show’s first two seasons, exploring the ups and downs of the cast of characters and the writing behind all the drama.
TRANSCRIPT
speaker1:
[Music 00:00:16]
Melinda Lewis:
Welcome to Pop the Question. A podcast that exists at the intersection of Pop Culture and Academia. We sit down and talk about our favorite stuff through the lenses of what we do and who we are. From Pennoni Honors College of Drexel University, Dr. Melinda Lewis here, I'm your host.
Melinda Lewis:
I am here with Kiara Santos. Gal about town, a good egg, and a [inaudible 00:00:45] here at Drexel University and a former co-op for The Smart Set Pennoni Honors Colleges, cultural and literary magazine. I'm so excited to talk to you, Kiara.
Kiara Santos:
Yay. Excited to be here.
Melinda Lewis:
And we are here to talk about HBO's Euphoria which is a teen drama that focuses on teens doing drugs, sex, fights. All of the feelings and it has really had a foothold over the culture. I mean, despite all the trauma, it's also weirdly very bingeable.
Kiara Santos:
It is a very bingeable show. I think I watched the first four episodes in one sitting and I was like, I need more. I need to be constantly stimulated.
Melinda Lewis:
So, if you had to describe Euphoria, what is your synopsis in general?
Kiara Santos:
Okay so, it's about a bunch of teenagers who just get into the craziest aspects of what teenage rebellion can be. There's a lot of drugs, there's a lot of sex, there's a lot of alcohol and just take that and amplify it by 10.
Speaker 2:
Tequila Makes me aggressive.
Speaker 3:
Tequila makes me want to dance.
Speaker 4:
I once took like 10 Vicodin and drank an entire thing of tequila and then I blacked out for three days, but while I was blacked out, I still went to school and did homework and shit.
Speaker 2: This transcript was exported on May 17, 2022 - view latest version here.
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Well, let's not do that tonight.
Speaker 4:
I won't, I'm clean so we're good.
Kiara Santos:
I would say that it is something that is trying to break the next frontier and culture, trying to be like a trendsetter. I don't necessarily agree with it being a trendsetter. I have a lot of opinions about that too.
Melinda Lewis:
Yeah, because I was just telling somebody, I haven't watched it but I'm intrigued by it based off of all the discourse which is actually all the gossip about it. I want to see what the big deal is. What are the teens up to?
Kiara Santos:
Yeah, are these really teens? Is this realistic to teens? I just think that I like the show. It's definitely bingeable but sometimes I have to laugh and kind of scoff at it because this isn't really the most realistic depiction.
Melinda Lewis:
Here's the thing that I thought about a lot. There's a scene in Euphoria where Rue's sister is in her room watching episodes of My So-Called Life.
Speaker 5:
Somewhere in those few seconds I knew my life would never be the same. I knew then that the rumor was right. Not an actuality, but in my heart. Because at that moment, I would've done anything, I wanted him so much.
Speaker 6:
Look. I didn't say anything about... You know.
Speaker 5:
I know.
Speaker 6:
I just wanted you to know that.
Speaker 5:
Thank you.
Melinda Lewis:
What 13, 14 year old is like "I'm watching My So-called Life?" You know, a teen drama from the early 90s that was highly popular. To me, it was less about that being realistic and more about showing the work. That this was hearkening back to the legacy of shows for the audience of my generation, of geriatric This transcript was exported on May 17, 2022 - view latest version here.
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millennials, and maybe even generation X. It taps into all of the shows that were along this framework. So, 90210, Degrassi and Skins, and The O.C. is another show, Gossip Girl, those two are shows that focus on very elite privileged teens. It's not necessarily for us in the sense of like watching teenagers do stuff but I do think it's for us in the sense that it is part of this genealogy of teen shows, and then two it's all from Rue's perspective played by Zendaya.
Kiara Santos:
Right.
Melinda Lewis:
Who is narrating the entire show. I find her incredible to watch in Euphoria. I think she has demonstrated herself as somebody who will continually grow as an actress.
Kiara Santos:
Yes. Season two, episode five. When we see her lose the drug money, that whole episode really of just trying to get drugs again, trying to make up for the money. That was wow.
Speaker 4:
Where did you put it? Where did you put my pills, Mom? Where did you put it?
Speaker 7:
[inaudible 00:05:02] Out of my way.
Speaker 4:
Mom.
Speaker 7:
I'm calling the police.
Speaker 4:
No you can't do that.
Speaker 7:
Get up.
Speaker 4:
What did you? Do you want to tell me to stop doing drugs?
Kiara Santos:
And I know she also got a lot of criticism because it's just like she's taking on roles like Spider-Man in Euphoria. And then you take on Malcolm and Marie and Malcolm and Marie was a grown woman.
Melinda Lewis: This transcript was exported on May 17, 2022 - view latest version here.
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I think that there's always a massive transition with those who started on Disney to be like, "I'm not a child."
Kiara Santos:
Right.
speaker 8:
Zendaya is in her mid 20s, and so I think that doing Euphoria is a major disruption to like, "I am not a part of this world anymore."
Child:
Zendaya, what was it like going from Disney to this?
Zendaya:
Please tell me you are not in here for this. Oh my God.
Melinda Lewis:
I think one of the interesting things that they do narratively is every character gets their own episode. And through Rue we understand who these characters are but also her own struggle with sobriety...
Kiara Santos:
Right.
speaker 8:
As somebody who is addicted to opioids. So, there are a lot of episodes that surround her either getting clean or not being clean, or kind of when will she hit rock bottom. And going back and forth with sobriety and addiction.
Speaker 4:
Open the door.
Speaker 8:
I can't do it.
Speaker 4:
Open the door. You did this to me. You did this to me, Fez.
Speaker 8:
I'm sorry.
Speaker 4:
You did this to me. This transcript was exported on May 17, 2022 - view latest version here.
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Kiara Santos:
The one character I really love and I have no criticism about is Colman Domingo's character. He's like the mentor to Rue. The first special episode is with Zendaya and him and they just simply are talking in a diner and he's just like, "I see so much of you, Rue, within myself. I really just want the best for you." He really acted so well in season one, season two in the special episode.
Speaker 9:
Now we're talking. Now you're being real. Now you're being honest. You feel me?
Melinda Lewis:
Sam Levinson actually was an addict and so I think that's probably the most kind of real it feels in terms of the anger and the feeling and all that stuff. But I mean so much of it is the same. It's Degrassi, it's a lot of people feeling things beyond their stuff.
Kiara Santos:
I feel like Sam Levison does not write his characters with any type of redemption arc except Zendaya. And even Zendaya has just got a little bit of a redemption arc within the last two episodes or so.
speaker 8:
There's also no memory between the first and second season...
Kiara Santos:
None.
speaker 8:
Like Cassie, her abortion is framed in such a way that it is very traumatic for her and season two starts. It is done.
Kiara Santos:
Yeah.
Speaker 10:
You want to talk about it? So here we are, we're talking about it, but I say we don't do it.
Speaker 11:
I'm not saying I'm going to have a baby. I just wanted to dream about it for a minute.
Melinda Lewis:
To me, it's such a short sided approach to how human beings operate. Especially with her family stuff and the kind of abandonment of her father, specifically. This relationship with McKay and dreaming of a family life, and not being able to have it. And then there's also these traumas that are not acknowledged along the way that I feel like bro, what was going on between season one and season two? Like nobody remembers anything. They're just framed as like a couple of weeks or a couple of months away. This transcript was exported on May 17, 2022 - view latest version here.
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Kiara Santos:
Sam Levinson is 80% there in his writing of these characters. I think Sam Levinson needs to be criticized more and more publicly. Like if you asked me, what is the theme of Euphoria? I couldn't tell you.
Melinda Lewis:
Yeah, Maybe don't do drugs. But also that this still is glorified in a way, like I think about the scene of them at the carnival. I don't know if they were doing Molly, they were doing something. And they're just like having a good time, their makeup is beautiful, they're wearing clothes that are not seen on teenagers and everybody's looking at them and it's just like, oh, I would totally love to be in that euphoric state of I'm so hot. And I'm just enjoying my life and my time here at the carnival. And then they contrast it to Rue struggling.
Speaker 4:
You don't believe me, but I'm doing really good actually.
Speaker 9:
Is that so?
Speaker 4:
Yeah. I feel like I've found this amazing balance, where I'm happy and healthy, and I'm not looking to anybody else for that happiness, you know?
Speaker 12:
Hey, it's your mom. I have a question about that podcast you do. Are you on the Instagram or the Twitter or the Facebook? You know, if I have an idea for a podcast, how do I get in touch with you? Love you. Bye
Melinda Lewis:
Sup Mom. Yeah. So you can find us on all those things actually. Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, just go to Pop Quest Pod on any one of those and follow. If you want to send us ideas, you can either go over to our website and leave us a message at Pop Q Podcast. Or you can get us directly at popq@drexel.edu. You can actually find us on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher. I can help set it up when get home, but then you have to promise me to re-interview. All right, love you. Bye.
Speaker 8:
Where'd you go? I was starting to miss you.
Speaker 13:
I'm not sure.
Speaker 8:
Why would I lie? You are like the coolest person in here.
Melinda Lewis: This transcript was exported on May 17, 2022 - view latest version here.
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I have two things. One, I was just thinking about how we were describing this show. And it was like and then so and so's boyfriend gets with this person and then there's like an abortion. And then this person is like this. And it just reminds me of how one talks about a soap opera, which this very much is. This is a soap opera with just better lighting. And this has, I think a little bit more cinematic acting style. Although, if season three includes an alien abduction, I wouldn't be surprised. And then the other thing is that I would say there's so much grief with these characters, but also like longing to be taken care of. There's a lot of dad stuff. So maybe Sam Levinson needs to work through some stuff with Barry.
Kiara Santos:
They all have dad stuff.
Melinda Lewis:
They all are grieving in a lot of ways and are exercising that grief in ways that gets them into trouble because that grief is like, well, "how do I feel that space?" And everybody is trying to fill that space differently.
Kiara Santos:
That is actually one of my bigger frustrations with the show was that they built up to these grand moments where you're like, "what is going to happen next? This is crazy." And then when you actually see it all act out, you're like, "oh, this was not major, apparently." The episode with Rue in season two, episode five, and she's stealing, she's causing wreckages in traffic. The police are looking for her. And then the next episode is, oh, well, she's watching TV with her sister. And everything's fine and dandy. And I'm just like, is she not going to go to juvie or anything? Same thing with the episode of ashtray "dies," but we don't know Cassie and Maddie finally have their fight. And it was like not even a fight. That's the theme of Euphoria, poor writing.
Melinda Lewis:
Why do we need any more Euphoria except HBO wanting to ride this train out...
Kiara Santos:
Yeah.
Melinda Lewis:
And I think maybe they have one more season left where it could compel them, but I feel like you could end on season two and it would be totally wonderful.
Kiara Santos:
Yeah. I mean, if I had to like rate season two, I would give it like four out of 10.
Melinda Lewis:
Wow. That's so low.
Kiara Santos: This transcript was exported on May 17, 2022 - view latest version here.
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I just think there was just too many plot holes. It wasn't really engaging. I think season one, I would give it an eight out of 10, but season four, just really lacked. I'd wanted to see more of Kat, Elliott's character made no sense. I don't know why he was put in that. Hearing him singing for five minutes in the finale was unnecessary. I don't think that there needs to be a season three. And all my friends were like, well, season two of any shows really hard. Because you have to develop the characters, yeah that's what you do as a writer. This is your job.
Melinda Lewis:
Yeah. I feel like for me, I would rate season two higher than you, for sure. Here's the thing, Kiara, I love mess. And even to every episode there was a lot of mess and so it provided me doses of drama that just kept my heart pounding. As soon as I kind of let go of the dream that there would be a thorough line narrative. I was like, that's not the show. This is not a show where we're going to get complex characters. This is not a show where we're going to get a really nice complex, meaty narrative. I'm going to let that dream die and I'm just going to be here for the crying, for the screaming and for the potential fighting.
Kiara Santos:
I was there for the lurdy experience
Melinda Lewis:
You were there and I was just like, wee.
Speaker 11:
You two were broken up for three weeks and three days before we even had sex, so I didn't betray you. Plus, you guys are terrible for each other and you know I'm right and you guys can all judge me if you want, but I do not care. I have never, ever been happier.
Speaker 4:
But she didn't say that. In fact, it was much weirder. She just stared straight ahead like she's doing now and didn't say a word.
Melinda Lewis:
I would definitely do higher up like a seven, like average. It was a C, there were just points in every episode where I was like, this is a really great scene.
Kiara Santos:
Yes.
Melinda Lewis:
This scene is really great. The context is kind of a bummer, but this scene is so good and I am interested in continuing. So, it was just like a little dose. Every episode...
Kiara Santos: This transcript was exported on May 17, 2022 - view latest version here.
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I Look at it like an album and you're like, oh, I really like this one song. Or I like this one bridge. That's how I felt about Euphoria. Oh, I really liked this episode. Or I really liked this scene. Or I liked this line. I liked how Sydney Sweeney was acting in this one episode. But I'm not listening to this whole album full through no skips. I'm not going to put it on my wall or anything. It was just definitely something that was just like, you listen to a couple songs and then like in a month or two, you're like, oh yeah. I remember when I really liked that one song.
Melinda Lewis:
No, I think that's a good comparison though, of like, I don't need to rewatch.
Kiara Santos:
No, I would rewatch season one though.
Melinda Lewis:
If you could design season three, what are like two or three things that you would like to see?
Kiara Santos:
If I want it to be groundbreaking, I want it to be a cultural reset. I want it to be like everything that I wanted to have season one and more. I think that would be achieved by really letting go of historical systemic ideas in terms of let's get rid of the male gaze. Let's actually focus on like things that are taboo. I don't want another Glee. I don't want another, My So-Called Life. I want something that's. So out of the box, I don't really care about the drama and the mess, even though I know people, as you said, live for it.
Melinda Lewis:
What's the point of watching. You're describing the view.
Kiara Santos:
I think there could still be a good balance because it's like, when you do deal with these things, they're still eventful and you can still do them very well on screen. I think of Moonlight a lot of the time, like it was just like ways that you can show that these things of healing can still be binge worthy, that you still want to eat up.
Speaker 14:
Let your head rest in my hand. Relax. I got you, I promise. I won't let you go. Hey, man. I got you. There you go. 10 seconds. Right there. You in the middle of the world.
Kiara Santos:
I was like at the edge of my seat watching Moonlight and I'd watch it again.
Melinda Lewis:
And also Barry Jenkins is a masterful filmmaker.
Kiara Santos:
Yes. So, maybe Barry Jenkins needs to like put some consultation into Euphoria. This transcript was exported on May 17, 2022 - view latest version here.
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Melinda Lewis:
Just give Barry Jenkins his own teen drama.
Kiara Santos:
Yeah. That's actually way better resolution.
Melinda Lewis:
Let's get that campaign going.
Kiara Santos:
Yeah, we'll get a trending on Twitter. And even though it's Sam Levinson show, I would like Sam Levinson to not spearhead the writing. I want him to have very little input in the writer's room and I think that's what make season three incredible.
Melinda Lewis:
You know what sounds nice, Sam Levinson Presents. It's got such a beautiful ring to it.
Kiara Santos:
Yeah, That would be nice. But it's a Zendeya show at the end of the day.
Melinda Lewis:
Oh, there's yeah. There's no way
Kiara Santos:
None.
Melinda Lewis:
Well Kiara, thanks for walking me through this mess.
Kiara Santos:
Of course.
Melinda Lewis:
Even though, you don't want the mess.
Kiara Santos:
Yeah, when season three comes out we should talk about it some more.
Melinda Lewis:
1000% I'm in.
Melinda Lewis: This transcript was exported on May 17, 2022 - view latest version here.
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Pop the Question was researched and hosted by Dr. Melinda Lewis. Our theme music and episodes are produced by Brian Kantorek with additional audio production by Noah Levine. All of this was done under the directorship of Erica Levi Zelinger, the deanship of Dr. Paula Marantz Cohen, and the Pennoni Honors College at Drexel University.
Speaker 15:
I do. I honestly do, but we talking about practice, man. What are we talking about? Practice, we talking about practice.