Pop, the Question (S4: E33)
Pandemic Fashion
From left to right: Gabrielle Bak, Lindsay Alshouse, host Dr. Melinda Lewis
Featured Guests Lindsay Alshouse (Undergraduate Student, Fashion Design, Westphal College of Media Arts & Design, Drexel University) and Gabrielle Bak (Alumna, Fashion Design)
Host and Producer Melinda Lewis, PhD (Associate Director, Marketing & Media)
Dean Paula Marantz Cohen, PhD (Dean, Pennoni Honors College)
Executive Producer Erica Levi Zelinger (Director, Marketing & Media)
Producer Brian Kantorek (Assistant Director, Marketing & Media)
Research and Script Melinda Lewis, PhD
Audio Engineering and Editing Brian Kantorek
Original Theme Music Brian Kantorek
Production Assistance Noah Levine
Graphic Design Alex Hotchkiss
Logo Design Michal Anderson
Additional Voiceover Malia Lewis
Recorded April 10, 2021 through virtual conferencing in collaboration with Enrollment Management & Student Success (EMSS). Pop, the Question is a production of Marketing & Media in Pennoni Honors College at Drexel University.
Copyright © 2021 Drexel University
Episode Summary
The COVID-19 pandemic turned the fashion world on its head, prompting independent designers to step up as larger, more established brands had to either pivot their business model or fold. Prudent designers followed the call to design comfy clothes like sweats, supportive footwear like Crocs, masks for both function and fashion, and creative collaborations with independent designers and craftspeople representing diverse clientele and wide-ranging needs. Drexel fashion design major Lindsay Alshouse and fashion design graduate Gabrielle Bak join Host Dr. Melinda Lewis for a big reveal of fashion trends from the pandemic, as well as industry shifts and their impact on popular culture.
Transcript:
Opening Theme Music:
[Upbeat, funky "Pop, the Question" theme music plays with audio clips, featuring Oprah Winfrey and "The Golden Girls."].
Theme Intro (Melinda Lewis):
Welcome to "Pop, the Question," a podcast that exists at the intersection of pop culture and academia. We sit down and talk about our favorite stuff through the lenses of what we do and who we are. From Pennoni Honors College at Drexel University, Dr. Melinda Lewis here. I'm your host.
Melinda Lewis:
For all those who are here, thank you so much for joining us for "Pop, the Question" about fashion and the pandemic. There were a lot of, I think, really intricate and cool questions that have come out of this and I'm joined by Lindsay Alshouse and Gabrielle Bak. And I'm going to let you guys introduce yourselves and then we'll get knee-deep in questions. So, Lindsay, why don't you start us off?
Lindsay Alshouse:
Yeah, so, I'm Lindsay. I'm a third-year fashion design student at Drexel and I am currently on co-op, studying specifically active wear designs.
Melinda Lewis:
Ooh, yeah.
Gabrielle Bak:
Hi, I'm Gabrielle. When I went to Drexel, I studied fashion design. After I graduated, I started working at Centric Brands as an assistant designer to the Design and Production Team.
Melinda Lewis:
I'm always interested in what really sparked an interest in what people decided to do. And, so, I was wondering if you could both share either a particular moment...maybe it was an outfit.
Gabrielle Bak:
My grandmother and her side of the family...they had a bridal business. So, they had a bridal store and they'd make bridal gowns. So, just growing up and hearing about those stories made me think, "Oh, fashion seems really cool. What they're doing seems really cool. I would want to do that one day."
Gabrielle Bak:
So, when I was younger, I was diagnosed with scoliosis. So, I wanted to design a collection that would make clothes more comfortable for girls who have to wear back braces, because I had to wear that when I was younger and clothes were---oh, my god---so uncomfortable. Jeans...it was all so uncomfortable. I know when I had to wear a back brace, I wanted to hide it so that I could only wear baggy sweatshirts and stuff. And that was not my style at all! So I think that's when I started to find...having a deeper connection with fashion in my own way, outside of my family.
Melinda Lewis:
That's so cool.
Lindsay Alshouse:
I feel like, for me, I didn't have a particular moment. I just grew up always loving...picking out my outfits and I always loved drawing. And then...I think, after I knew I wanted to do fashion, though, I kind of had a post-entrance moment of realizing that I could explore a lot of different things within fashion, such as how fashion meets the needs of people who have different abilities and different needs, as well as knowing that I could combine fashion and my love of sports.
Audio Clips:
[Lady Gaga's "Fashion" audio clip plays. Soft piano music fades in, followed by uplifting, funky dance music. Lady Gaga and group periodically chant, "Fashion!" Lady Gaga continues, "Step into the room like it's a catwalk. Singing to the tune, just to keep them talking." Music fades out.]
Melinda Lewis:
Now, take us back to 2020, if you can remember that far. Where were we at with fashion in 2020?
Lindsay Alshouse:
I think some of the fast fashion brands were even growing in 2020. Kind of like Shein, I heard, was really big. And, at the same time, the other side of people in fashion were trying to push the conversation in more of sustainability and of ethical fashion. And, so, I think there was almost a polarizing trend, growing in either direction.
Audio Clips:
["Today" news report audio clip plays. Over atmospheric electronic and guitar background music, a reporter says: "As we do so many virtual meetings, millions are dressing for the keyboard up and spending less overall. That's sped up the bankruptcy of legendary retailers like Neiman Marcus, J.Crew, Brooks Brothers, and Ann Taylor." Music fades out.]
Melinda Lewis:
What about the pandemic, do you think, caused people to really start investigating this more?
Lindsay Alshouse:
I think one factor could be people not spending as much. They're kind of thinking a little bit more critically, when they're making their purchases. I think people became really passionate about the things that they were seeing, when they were spending more time on social media. And just the whole attitude shift that the pandemic brought in about just the human well-being...that the whole purpose of lockdown was to protect yourself and to protect others. And, so, I think when that became a focus in people's lives, people started to think about just the values that they have and the values that other people in the industry have and who they're buying from.
Melinda Lewis:
I also noticed that so many people were also making things themselves; that we saw people making masks; that we saw people like, "I've always wanted to learn how to knit. So, I have the time, I guess I'll do that." And I'm wondering if you think that also adds to this idea of finding the pleasure in making stuff, as opposed to just buying stuff because we can or think that we should.
Gabrielle Bak:
Before COVID, I feel like everyone was just really busy and minds were everywhere and now it was just kind of...COVID was just a time for us to stop...assess what's going on in life. The masks were safe for the healthcare workers and me and a lot of my friends who knew how to sew, we would sell a ton of fabric masks; we'd print off the pattern online; we'd make a bunch of them. It was a nice distraction---especially with all the sadness going on---being able to pick up something new...something to enjoy.
Lindsay Alshouse:
I, honestly, took a little bit of a break, too, from fashion. And, so, I kind of would just go on a lot of walks.
Gabrielle Bak:
I did feel that. I was like...I felt so rundown. I didn't want to look at a sewing machine, because I would sit in all these Zoom classes and then, once I started working, all these Zoom meetings. It's uncomfortable; I didn't realize how uncomfortable jeans are, when you sit in them all day. And then sweatpants or just the knit fabric...I don't know...the fleece, it's just so much more comfortable. So, I made the switch. Yeah. [Gabrielle laughs.].
Melinda Lewis:
And I think that would be an interesting change, too, is to think about like, "Maybe we don't need these constricting clothes."
Audio Clips:
["CBS Sunday Morning" news report audio clip plays. Over upbeat electronic music, a reporter says: "With work from home the norm for many, pajama sales spiked 133%; slippers 75%. Hello, sweatpants; goodbye, jeans." Music fades.]
Lindsay Alshouse:
Yeah, I know a lot of my family members have even been talking about how they just feel a lot more free being on Zoom and not having to worry about what they're wearing and how they're being seen in public. And you can just feel a lot more comfortable when you're in your house and you're not being judged for the things that you feel like you have to put on because it's on trend or because it looks more flattering. You can wear the really oversized sweatshirt, because it just makes you feel comfortable.
Audio Clips:
[Lilly Singh YouTube channel audio clip plays. Over a hip-hop electronic beat, Singh jokes, "Can we have a moment of real talk? Because I, too, in the beginning of the pandemic was like, 'Oh, I miss dressing up.' But if I'm being real with myself, it's been a while now and nnn, I don't!" Music stops suddenly.]
Melinda Lewis:
I've also had a lot of my friends talk about just never wearing bras again; like having that...the same moment you had with jeans. Can you think of other kind of things that are going on the damned list?
Gabrielle Bak:
I know, for my personal style, I started buying a lot more knits. So, I guess just rethinking what kind of fabrics I wear.
Lindsay Alshouse:
Yeah, I think for me, it's a similar comfort idea, but with shoes. I find myself looking at the shoes that I think I would mock and judge when I was in middle school for how old and clunky they looked.
Audio Clips:
["Will & Grace" audio clip plays. Three speakers are in scene. Grace says, "OK, wow. Now, what's happening on your feet?" Will responds, "What?" A third character interjects, "I think she's talking about your shoes, Heidi." Laugh track follows. Will adds, "What? They're clogs! They're good for your back." Grace says, "They're good for the back of your closet." Laugh track follows and fades out.]
Lindsay Alshouse:
But now I think that's me, looking for the extra support and more comfortable shoes that don't give me blisters.
Gabrielle Bak:
Yeah, I used to wear heels to class. And I was like, "How did I do that?" Now, all I wear is sneakers. [Gabrielle laughs.]
Melinda Lewis:
I used to clown like Danskos and Crocs. And now it's like, "No! You know what's nice? Arch support and not feeling my feet."
Lindsay Alshouse:
Yeah, Crocs became really big over COVID; not breaking the rules, but the rules were broken by COVID and it was kind of like, "Do what you have to do to survive."
Audio Clips:
[Generic YouTube news audio clip plays with robotic narration over upbeat electronic music. Narrator says, "Crocs have been selling well during the pandemic and launching celebrity collaborations with Justin Bieber, Post Malone, Priyanka Chopra, and Bad Bunny that have made them popular among Gen Z shoppers. Plus, Questlove recently rocked a gold pair at the Oscars." Music fades out.]
Melinda Lewis:
I think we often forget that being comfortable in our clothing can help us be comfortable in our own skin. And I think...I'm hoping that that might kind of boost us in some degree to maybe some sort of...I don't know if radical self-acceptance is going to be on the table, but I hope that there's like a sense of like, "I'm not going to wear jeans; I'm not going to wear heels; I'm going to wear sweatpants and I'm going to love my body, because I feel good in what I am wearing."
Gabrielle Bak:
I had to start going back into the office a couple days a week. And I'm a big fan of joggers, so anything elastic waistband, draw cord? Big fan. [Gabrielle laughs.].
Lindsay Alshouse:
Yeah, it depends on the company, too. I think some companies will be in a pre-COVID mindset of, "You're going to come and look professional." But I even found a skirt over COVID that I bought [Linsday laughs] that was sweatshirt material. So, it looks like a sweatshirt, but it's a skirt. And, so, I've been wearing that a lot, because I can be as comfortable as I am in sweatpants. And, so, I think items like that will become more popular and more accepted. On the whole, I think a lot of these rules are a little bit bent for good.
Melinda Lewis:
Are we going to see men's fashion also gear more towards this athleisure business wear?
Lindsay Alshouse:
I wonder if men's wear won't change as much.
Audio Clips:
["The Wolf of Wall Street" audio clip plays. Over a raging crowd of stockbrokers, Leonardo DiCaprio's character shouts, "The show goes on! This is my home! They're gonna need to send in the National Guard, 'cause I ain't goin' nowhere!" The crowd roars and fades out.]
Melinda Lewis:
Yeah, I was thinking about Wall Street and how, regardless of gender, the clothes there also represent a certain status. And I just don't know how radicalized Wall Street fashion can be.
Lindsay Alshouse:
If you went to your doctor and they were wearing sweatpants, what would you think? [All participants laugh.].
Gabrielle Bak:
Yeah. [Gabrielle laughs.].
Melinda Lewis:
That's a good question! Or, if they were wearing, yeah, like a Mickey Mouse T-shirt.
Audio Clips:
["The Mickey Mouse Club" intro audio clip plays. Over marching band music, children and lead vocalists sing, "M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E! Mickey Mouse Club...Mickey Mouse Club." Music fades out.]
Promo Segment (Speaker 1):
[Phone rings and voicemail message begins.] Hey, it's your mom. I have a question about that podcast you do. Are you on the Instagram or the Twitter or the Facebook? You know, like, if I have an idea for a podcast, how do I get in touch with you? Love you. Bye.
Promo Segment (Melinda Lewis):
[Tape whirling effect, followed by "Pop, the Question" instrumental theme music and Melinda Lewis.] 'Sup, Mom! Uh, yeah. So, you can find us on all those things, actually: Twitter; Instagram; Facebook. Just go to "popquestpod" on any one of those and follow. If you want to send us ideas, you can either go over to our website and leave us a message at "popqpodcast" or you can get us directly at popq@drexel.edu. You can actually find us on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher. I can help set it up when I get home, but then you have to promise me to rate and review. Alright, love you. Bye! [Promo segment theme music concludes with "Scooby-doo-bop!"].
Audio Clips:
[David Bowie's "Fashion" audio clip plays. Over funky disco music, Bowie sings, "Fashion! Turn to the left! Fashion! Turn to the right. Oooh, fashion!" Bowie continues, "We are the goon squad and we're coming to town. Beep, beep!" Music fades out.]
Melinda Lewis:
Do you think that there was a move, on one hand, people moving towards creating and making and selling things on marketplaces like Etsy? Do you also see the audience or the reception aspect also shifting to that of people being like, "You know what, I don't want to buy this stuff from, you know, this company"?
Lindsay Alshouse:
I do; I really do. Especially because people were really embracing some of the random things that were popping up on these little shops and they were saying, "I'm not going to buy from the fast fashion companies; I'm going to buy from something that's local. It supports a small business owner and it's not feeding into some of these bad things that are going around on social media."
Melinda Lewis:
Gabrielle, do you see that trend as well or...?
Gabrielle Bak:
Yeah, especially seeing videos on Instagram and TikTok, there's a lot of "support the independent businesses." And you see that there's TikTok trends, where they show you how they make everything themselves...how they package everything themselves. And that was really cool to see.
Audio Clips:
[TikTok video audio clip plays. Over upbeat, strumming guitar music and whistling, narrator says, "Since I was really excited about this apocalyptic DIY project, I got right to work, making items that the CDC says should only be used as a last resort. [Narrator sighs.] So cute. And then I head to bed to dream about universal healthcare and a world in which people actually practice social distancing in order to flatten the curve and not overwhelm the already-extremely-fragile healthcare system." Audio clip ends abruptly.]
Melinda Lewis:
To go back, I think, to Lindsay's point about this period being a time where we're really forced to think about other people: do you think that that maker culture and that kind of consumer shift will change or are we just going to rush back to the mall?
Gabrielle Bak:
I mean, I feel like it's opened people's eyes more to it, instead of thinking like, "Oh, it's so easy. I could go to H&M; I could go to the mall and just buy a bunch of random stuff really cheap. Or I could, instead, put my money towards a smaller business." I know that's definitely how...I've been buying a lot of stuff from Etsy. I know that's my...the way I shop definitely shifted.
Melinda Lewis:
I hope we don't need a pandemic every time we need to remind people that there's makers and people who do really cool things and have stuff that are outside of the norm. But, yeah, it does feel like people need that something kind of dramatic to remind them of that.
Lindsay Alshouse:
I'm interested to see if masks continue to be a part of the more daily fashion, even after COVID is quote "over." Just because, I think, outside of fashion, there's a new attitude of personal safety and a heightened need to feel comfortable about that. And it would just be interesting to see where masks play into that and how fashion and masks continue to relate.
Gabrielle Bak:
I saw the mask necklaces, where it's a necklace and your mask is there. And then, when you've got to use it, you just put it up there, incorporating it as an accessory, too.
Audio Clips:
[Copper Fit Never Lost Face Mask infomercial audio clip plays. Over upbeat drums and then perky guitar music, a deep-voiced narrator says, "Lose something? Where's your face mask?" Other actors' voices add, "Probably in my car? Somewhere in my kitchen. He has no idea." Narrator continues, "When you need your mask, you want it right where you can find it. Introducing Copper Fit Never Lost Face Mask, the new ultra-lightweight mask designed with a built-in lanyard that lets you lower your mask and is always right there when you need it. Copper Fit Never Lost Mask." Music ends.]
Melinda Lewis:
What do you think the fashion industry has done in this time to maybe adjust to these new ideas or new concerns or new perspectives on clothes and fashion?
Gabrielle Bak:
A lot of companies and even the one I'm working for---because you can't have in-person fittings---they've started utilizing 3D technologies where you can just fit on an avatar.
Melinda Lewis:
Hmmm.
Gabrielle Bak:
The industry was already starting to use it, but who knew that we'd have to rely on it so much?
Lindsay Alshouse:
Yeah, that is interesting. I think what I've noticed in the industry would be the people who really want to showcase the individuality that they discovered in their crafts. A lot of Etsy shops opened; a lot of Depop shops opened. So, I think that's one thing in the industry, because a lot of the bigger companies---the first few months---were struggling, because they had all of these collections planned for people who were going to be going to clubs or going about their normal lives. And, suddenly, they needed to be switching to sweatpants. And, so, I think before they were able to make that switch---since these collections are being designed so far ahead of time---a lot more independent craftspeople and designers joined the industry and kind of reshaped that.
Melinda Lewis:
Where do you see fast fashion trending? What are they going to "borrow" or appropriate from these makers? And what trends do you think that we will see?
Lindsay Alshouse:
I think collaborations could be a big thing. I think they've been growing a little bit as companies even try to recruit some of these independent designers to boost their image and saying, "Look, we're supporting this independent maker and business owner." Allowing individuals to influence a company's direction for a little bit could be a trend. Yeah, COVID has just brought up these interesting pairings of fashion and of culture.
Lindsay Alshouse:
I would like the ethical standards to not go away. I don't want that to just be a social media phase of outrage, producing some fake results. I think it would be nice to see the fashion industry be a little bit more thoughtful of the things that they're producing and why. And it's not just about margins and it's more about the people who are both behind what they're making and, then, who they're giving it to. A little more humanity, I guess.
Audio Clips:
["Vogue" magazine segment audio clip plays. Over gloomy electronic music, one fashion designer says, "So much of what the fashion industry has been missing the plot on is reality and actual inclusion. When someone spends money on your brand or when someone spends money at all, that's a power transaction. Even when you "like" something on Instagram, that's a power transaction. So, you need to spend your time and your resources on the things that you want to see do well and succeed." Audio clip ends abruptly.]
Melinda Lewis:
I would like everybody to be able to find items that bring them joy, that bring them comfort, and that they can afford, beyond inclusive collections that are like $200 for a white T-shirt.
Gabrielle Bak:
No, fashion should be fun for everyone. It should be like, "Ooh, I want to pick this." If you want to wear bright patterns, wear bright patterns. I'm excited to see what fashion's going to turn into after COVID, when everyone's working in person again. Will people want to dress up more now? Like go back to that...or not?
Audio Clips:
[Lana Del Rey's "Love" audio clip plays. Over dramatic, atmospheric music, Del Rey sings, "You get ready; you get all dressed up to go nowhere in particular. Back to work or the coffee shop. It don't matter, because it's enough to be young and in love. Ah, ah." Music fades out.]
Lindsay Alshouse:
Yeah and I think, if there were more options, then maybe we would be less tied into...I mean, trends will always be here and people will always want to follow trends, but maybe people would embrace individuality a little bit more and not feel like they have to fit into certain trends that maybe their bodies don't work with. And they can still feel confident in them, even if it's different and that be okay without them fearing ridicule.
Melinda Lewis:
That'll be an interesting thing, particularly as we move further and further away from 2020. Thank you so much, again, for hanging out with me and talking about fashion, past, present, and future. Continue to take care of yourselves. And, yeah, I look forward to seeing all of the ways that you interrupt and intervene in this industry. I'm so excited to see what you bring to the table and force these industries to do.
Gabrielle Bak:
Thank you.
Lindsay Alshouse:
Thank you. Thank you for having us.
Closing Theme Music:
[Upbeat, funky theme music plays.]
Theme Outro (Melinda Lewis):
"Pop, the Question" was researched and hosted by Dr. Melinda Lewis. Our theme music and episodes are produced by Brian Kantorek with additional audio production by Noah Levine. All of this was done under the directorship of Eric Levi Zelinger, the deanship of Dr. Paula Marantz Cohen, and the Pennoni Honors College at Drexel University. [Theme music continues with "Pop, the Question!" vocals and a Wilhelm scream.]
Closing Theme Music (Speaker 1):
["Pop, the Question" theme music continues with Allen Iverson's speaking at a press conference.] I know it's important. I do; I honestly do. But we talking about practice, man. What're we talking about? Practice?! We talking about practice, man. [Theme music fades out.]